A brand-new EVA Boeing 777-300ER, currently the most popular 777 variant, at Paine Field (with nine-abreast economy)
In October 2015, it appeared that Cathay Pacific was ’˜flirting’ with the idea of changing its long-haul 777 economy class from a 9-abreast to a 10-abreast cabin. This appears to be correct, since Cathay Pacific gauged the responses of some of its most loyal Marco Polo customers in a recent survey to see whether they would accept a 3-4-3 configuration on their long-haul 777 aircraft.
BONUS: Flying a Cathay 777 Across North America in Business Class
’œTo understand the needs of our customers as well as the trend and development of the airline industry, Cathay Pacific periodically conducts research on different aspects of our offerings so as to continuously improve on our passenger services,’ Julie Jarratt, Cathay Pacific Communications Manager explained to AirlineReporter. ’œCathay Pacific, at this stage, has no decision to change the seat width and seat pitch of our 777 fleet.’
The economy cabin inside a Singapore Airlines 777
From an airline’s perspective, the rationale for a 10-abreast cabin is quite obvious. Not only does it provide a higher profit margin, by lowering its cost per seat mile, but it (theoretically) allows these savings to be put into other benefits for travelers in the form of cheaper airfares or enhanced services. In this sense, a denser cabin allows airlines to move greater numbers of passenger on fewer flights, which leads to fuel efficiency in the form of equated fuel burn reduction savings. I wanted to take a closer look at which airlines are taking delivery of the higher-density 777s, as that configuration is becoming more and more popular.
A TAM Boeing 777-300ER with 10-abreast economy seats
Sure, an increase in the number of seats will translate into reduced passenger comfort and access (e.g. longer boarding times if bags do not fit the aisles), but the airline business model assumes that passengers are willing to make sacrifices for lower fares. If you want more space and comfort, passengers can upgrade to premium economy, business class, or first class, right?
Emirates has a pretty good 777 product, but still a 3-4-3 configuration
Fifteen years ago, only 5% of 777 deliveries were equipped with 10-abreast economy. Things have surely changed since then; today over 50% of airlines take the more dense option.
BONUS: Flight review – TAM Airlines 777 to Brazil
Boeing works with airlines to make sure they are providing the products that will allow them to operate most effectively. ’œBoeing is in constant conversation with our customers about what they want and what they need,’ Elizabeth Fischtziur, Boeing 777 Program Communications, told AirlineReporter. ’œThat has helped us create a family of long-range twin-aisle airplanes that are the most preferred by both airlines and their passengers.’
’œIn contrast to the competitor’s products, the 777 has a wider fuselage that allows for more seats in each row while providing good passenger experience,” Fishtziur continued. ’œAirline acceptance of the 777 at 10-abreast has continued to grow over the years, now accounting for over 50 percent of recent 777 deliveries. Meanwhile, the 777 continues to win passenger preference awards year after year.’
-
- American 777-300ER at JFK
-
- American Airlines has 10-abreast in their 777-300ERs
However, a look at the top ten 777 operators (based on total orders and deliveries) would suggest that many operators have remained firm on a 3-3-3 economy configuration. In this sense, premium airlines like Singapore Airlines and Korean Air have remained competitive by thriving on differentiation. Even British Airways reverted back to 3-3-3 after trialing a 3-4-3 configuration in its World Traveller cabin and receiving significant criticism in the late 1990s.
Although Boeing deliveries for 10-abreast cabins may be increasing, the better view would suggest that Boeing is delivering the 10-abreast 777 deliveries to the same customers, but in greater quantities.
From a global perspective, the 10-abreast cabin does appear to be a growing trend, especially among European and Middle Eastern carriers. To my surprise, Qatar Airways has also started to introduce the 10-abreast cabin.
BONUS: Flying on a Qatar Airways 777 Halfway Across the World
’œDue to ever-increasing passenger demand across a range of Qatar Airways routes coupled with new developments in slim-line seating, Qatar Airways will feature 10 seats abreast in Economy on all its new B777 aircraft,’ Qatar said in a statement emailed to AirlineReporter.
’œThe current Qatar Airways fleet of 9 Boeing 777-200 aircraft, with a capacity of 259 seats, 42 business class and 217 economy class, will remain in a 3-3-3 configuration across in its economy class section, with a 32 inch seat pitch and 18.2 inch seat width,” the airline continued. “All future Boeing 777-300 aircraft deliveries will maintain an economy class seat pitch of 32 inches, with a width of 17 inches in a 3-4-3 configuration. And, as part of the retrofitting and updating of our existing Boeing 777-300 fleet, the current 28 B777-300 aircraft will also mirror this updated configuration when retrofitted by the end of 2016.”
EVA’s 3-3-3 configuration inside a 777-300ER
Airlines with 777 10-abreast configuration
Aeroflot, Air Austral, Air Canada, Air France, Air New Zealand, American Airlines, Austrian Airlines, China Airlines, China Eastern, Emirates, Etihad, Jet Airways, KLM, Kuwait Airways, LATAM, Saudi Arabian Airlines, Scoot, TAAG Angola
Airlines with 777 9-abreast configuration
Nevertheless, the 9-abreast cabin remains the most popular choice for airlines.
Air China, Air India, ANA, Asiana Airlines, Biman Bangladesh, British Airways, Cathay Pacific, Ceiba Intercontinental, China Southern, Delta, Egyptair, El Al, Ethiopian Airlines, Eva Air, Garuda Indonesia, Kenya Airways, Japan Airlines, Korean Air, Malaysia Airlines, Qatar Airways*, Singapore Airlines, Pakistan International, Thai, THY Turkish, Turkmenistan, United Airlines*, Vietnam Airlines, Virgin Australia
**Note: Qatar Airways has announced plans to retrofit their 777-300ERs to 10-abreast. United Airlines is reported to take their new 777-300ERs with a 10-abreast setup in economy.
A Qatar 777 in the Boeing factory. It will be configured with 10 abreast in economy
With the three Gulf mega-carriers (Emirates, Etihad, and Qatar) luring many travelers away from other airlines, it is no surprise that they are often seen as the benchmark in commercial aviation. In many respects, they have become the catalyst for airlines to adopt a 10-abreast cabin. Is that a good thing?
BONUS: Flight review- Taking an Emirates Airline Boeing 777-200LR to Dubai
For costs, probably. But for overall comfort, probably not. As AvGeeks, we are likely to know what airline is flying which configuration, but the big question remains; will most passengers tell the difference or will they choose one airline because of 9-abreast seating? It seems most do not.
This story was written by Matthew Tsai for AirlineReporter. He works in the legal sector and has a strong interest in international air law and aerospace human factors.
Although I haven’t personally flown on an Air Canada 777-300ER recently, a friend of mine flew in one of their new ”High Density” 77W’s from Montreal to Paris and found it incredibly uncomfortable, especially compared to the 9 abreast on AC’s 77L he flew to Australia on.
I just flew from YVR-YYZ on an AC 777-300ER; let’s say I wouldn’t fancy being on a long-haul on that variant. The time it takes to board, the amount of passengers on board (these two factors don’t bother me) but if you have a bigger frame, I noticed several guys in my row and the one behind looking very uncomfortable. Seems very unforgiving and tight. Wish AC’s Dreamliners were 2X4X2, but that’s another discussion.
It’s interesting -you get (arguably) more environmental benefits by fit more people onto a 777, and (arguably) saves costs all around. For this avgeek, it’s a little cringe-inducing to see how far airlines take it, though. I guess you can’t argue with the market – I looked long and hard at the premium economy offering on my most recent booking…
Hey Fred,
I would say it is hard to argue that it is more environmentally friendly and cost (at least for the airlines) are down. I would easily argue that the benefit to the environment is more marketing than it really is about saving the whales :).
But I think you are right. This is market driven by people wanting the cheapest fare possible. Seems that some passengers are willing to pay more for that additional comfort, but many want to get to their destination as cheap as possible!
David | AirlineReporter
Does anyone know the interior cabin width of the 777 vs 747? The latter always came with 10 across economy seating to my knowledge. never more . I recall old L1011’s (TWA) and DC 10’s (NW) with 2 5 2 economy seating. I have never seen more than 2-4-2 on A330/A340’s
Looking at wikipedia, all 777s have a 19 ft 3 in (5.87 m) -wide cabin, and all 747s are an even 20 feet (6.1 m) wide.
The earliest 747-100’s had 2+4+3 (9 across), although it seems that this quickly moved to 3+4+3 in the late-1970’s.
DC-10’s and L-1011’s were initially 2+4+2 (I flew them back then). In the late 1970’s they were retrofitted to 2+5+2. I have a Northwest Orient schedule which has an advertisement about their DC-10 bragging that they had not (yet) retrofitted to 2+4+2 like other airlines.
Yes Remember that vaguely. I think Qantas started with 9 abreast on their 200’s ( in the days when Qantas was an airline the industry watched) but quickly shifted to 10 abreast whcich became universal very quickly but they gave you legroom and fairly confortable seats, hot towels and a decent meal (or meals). Those days are gone so 10 abreast will definitely be the room. The industry seems to have sttled for 32 inch pitch for the moment. But all you need is some nerd to roll their seats back and leave them there and your in hell.
I’ve seen 3-3-3 layout in AirTransit A 330, and I’ve hear of 3-4-3 layouts on DC-10s and MD-11s
We flew AA from JFK to EZE (Buenos Aires) and it was 2-4-2 (definitely the 2 part) which was superb.
I remember flying as late as 2004 on UA triple-7s in economy which had a 2-4-2 (or could have been 2-5-2) layout. Just two seats along the side panels felt pretty distinctive.
Yes I recall that on UA in about the same time Fred.
Forgot to add: I remember when the 777 was first being marketed by Boeing, and it had deliberately launched later than the A330/A340 and MD-11, allowing them to improve on the specs. Anyway, in competition with the A330/A340, Boeing touted how the wider fuselage gave them, in essence, a “free” seat per row (i.e. the one in the very center of the 2+5+2 configuration). Airbus, of course, talked openly about how passengers would see that very center seat as the worst place to sit in an airliner, and how their 2+4+2 (due to their more narrow fuselage) avoided that “bucket” seat in the very center….
2-5-2 was the earlier 9 abreast option offered on the 777 which was directly competing with the MD-11 which offered the same configuration. Later people preferred the current 3-3-3 option, perhaps because 5 was too crowded in the middle and created the undesireble dead-center seat. However it would be nice if you got five seats in a row to yourself during an empty flight.
Yes, the 777 initially came out (with United as launch customer) in 2+5+2. Boeing’s claim at the time was that these seats were the same with as the 10-abreast configuration in the 747-400, and therefore the widest in the sky. Initially, US domestic 777 operators seemed to all use 2+5+2, whereas overseas (e.g. SIA) operators set 3+3+3. I remember folks stating at the time that 3+3+3 had the advantage that everyone who did not have a window seat was a maximum of one seat from the aisle. It supposedly also had some advantage of when the flight was not full, 3+3+3 gave more passengers an open seat next to them…
I find it very interesting that JAL and ANA are configured with only 8 abreast in coach on the 787 at 2+4+2. Boeing had initially patented and was encouraging a 3+2+3 layout for the 787, but I don’t know of any airlines that use that configuration….
I flew in Air Canada B777 high density in 10 abreast. I can attest that is the MOST UNCOMFORTABLE seat ever. Torture for the long YVR-HKG trip. I am switching to CX (3-3-3) for this route in Y.
Better hope CX doesn’t switch to a 3-4-3 as mentioned earlier in this article. They claim seat width and pitch won’t change, but something’s gotta give, right? Anyway, CX in Y was comfortable enough for me on a JFK-HKG segment.
From talking to CX about it — seems if it will happen, it won’t be any time soon! At least let’s hope.
David | AirlineReporter
Hey King,
And that is what passengers have to do. Voting with the pocket book is pretty darn powerful. I just think that most passengers have no idea that some airlines have 9 vs 10 seats in economy. Of course we all do, and I like to think most people are just as informed as us, but you know how that goes :)!
David | AirlineReporter
Personally, I think CX is the best economy airline I’ve flown
I do not like this trend to narrow seats. I actively avoided 10 abreast 777 (KLM) by booking another airline 2 weeks ago. Same for the 787 9 abreast, to narrow for my shoulders and I actively avoid airlines operating it. I rather make a stop halfway, which is often cheaper too.
For the 787 I think Boeing should stretch the family to make possible the required capacity and range for long flights, but with comfortable 2-4-2 seating.
http://kaktusdigital.format.com/boeing_787-11x#3
To my surprise a lot of folks I know don’t even pre-book seats!
I do everything I can to avoid flying on a 777, be it 9 or 10 abreast. The cabin noise is the loudest of all. I will happily pay more to fly on an A380. I hope airlines will resist the 10 abreast trend on A350s, or ultimately 11 abreast on A380s!
In regards of the comment for the AirCanada 10 abreast in Y on the B777s… there are 3 differents configs of the B777 right now for AC… the original 9 abreast ,with oval diagonal pods in J (2 classes – B773-349 seats , B772-270 seats), the HD 10 Y,with studio pods in J (3 classes – 460 seats)((that’s the ones hated in the comments…)) and the new 10 abreast “Dream cabin” with the same colors scheme and IFE as the B787 fleet and the same J class squares diagonal pods (B773-400seats, B772-300 seats). The refit for the whole B777 should be completed by mid summer. The “HD” 460 seater should also get refit with the dream cabin…
Comments are the new cabin is better than the HD, even at 10 abreast. I have yet to try it…but friends did.
Cheers
Thanks for sharing that, Richard. Since Air Canada announced their retrofit back in June 2015, I thought it was easier to put the airline under the 10 abreast category.
As someone who’s flown on Air Canada’s 777-300 with 10 abreast several times, I will not fly them if I have a choice. Not only is it uncomfortably tight (and I’m a slim guy) but one must take into account the lack of overhead bins and not to mention no additional washrooms for the 90-100 extra passengers. It’s brutal how long the bathroom waits are. I’d fly CX to Asia in comfort compared to sardine class in Air Canada. AC can kiss my patronage goodbye…
Note: ANA is moving to 10-abreast.
so many people are having more than one long haul trip a year these days so to allow that they will always go for the cheapest , I don’t think many people realise how tight the seating is until they have actually flown !!
I’m a ‘budget’ traveller, and I won’t travel on a 10-abreast 777. My twice-yearly SYD-LAX flight sees me usually stick with Delta and Virgin Australia, who are 3-3-3. I recently switched from a 10-abreast American Airlines 777 to a United 777, which is 9-abreast. Even as a cattle-class traveller, I’m willing to spend an extra few hundred bucks to get the comfier configuration. Having to squish my elbows in for an entire flight is intolerable.
I have flown the Emirates 777 a number of times which are 10 abreast in economy and it’s a horrible experience. Cramped seats, very narrow aisles, longer waits for meals and large queues at the toilets. Now I do everything I can to avoid this type of aircraft because 777’s are not designed to fit so many seats. Also avoid any 787s that have 9 abreast such as Qatar Air because that is torture, whereas ANA configuration of 8 abreast is very comfortable. I understand why Airlines want to cram in more pax, but I’m willing to pay extra for comfort and where possible I’ll purchase premium economy, if it’s affordable and available.
I just had my first flights on EK 777 with a high density C-42/Y-386 configuration. I do not understand why EK is regarded for its service. For the 777’s this is not the case. I’ll do everything to avoid EK 777s in the future.
I too always try to avoid a 10 abreast 777. It is horribly painful. And I’m an average sized person…in asia. I switched from EK 777 to Qatar’s 777 because Qatar was 9 abreast. But I think any airline should lose their 5 stars for switching to 10 abreast, even for Qatar and CX. If they are only looking for efficiency, why not just make everyone stand close to each other and they can put an extra 100-200 people.
The 787 is a beautiful airliner and comfortable with the 8 abreast (ANA) but most (if not all) new deliveries are putting 9 abreast. Why turn something great to something awful?? That’s like having a Mercedes installed with Pinto’s seats. 18″ width seats should be the minimum, 17″ is cattle.
On “AIRLINES WITH 777 10-ABREAST CONFIGURATION” section, you forgot Philippine Airlines that also consists of 10 abreast in their Boeing 777.
I honestly do not see why this plane wins so many passenger awards. As a frequent flyer I would MUCH prefer a 10-20 year old 747-400 over this cramped thing! I certainly did enjoy the Boeing Sky interior and mood lighting on my recent BA First flight, but I still enjoy flights on the 744 more
As I said on jan 26, I booked EK A380 iso 777 of my home carrier and last week found out overall comfort is chockingly superior..
Hello to every body, it’s my first visit of this website;
this blog contains awesome and really good data in support of visitors.
I am really curious how a 450 seater 10 abreast B777 can pass 90 second emergency evacuation tests. I had my most uncomfortable flight ever on a 5 hr Air Canada B777 this week – believe me it was worse than flying 10 hours to Europe ( on a A340 ) with a baby on my lap. This 10 abreast config B777 must be avoided at all costs ! And it is not only the flight that is a nightmareç It took me 25 minutes to get out of the plane at the gate from row 56 !
The A350 will not be able to go to 10 inches – that would be a 16.5 inch seat as is is much narrower than a 777 by about 8 inches.
The new 777–X will have a wider interior cabin by about 4 inches than the current 777. The 10 abreast seating on these planes will be about 17.7 inches which is very close to 18.
The 777 beats the 9 across A330’s I have flown by a mile. The 9 abreast 787 is not bad. However, I do like the 8 abreast 787 much better almost 19 inch seats.
Sorry to disappoint, but some airlines have spread ordered ten abreast A350’s.
Air Asia was the first and more are on the way. 9 abreast A330s are becoming more common as well. Both of these aircraft at these configurations do indeed yield 16.5″ seat width.
Good news on the 777X whose internal width is being increased, 10 abreast will allow 18″ seat width.
Looking at the picture of the TAM Boeing 777-300ER with 10-abreast economy seats featured near the top of this article, it appears that the aisle is far too narrow to be in compliance with accessibility requirements. Rule-making proposals now underway will likely require aisles that are wider than 19″ in order to accommodate wheelchair passengers. Airlines might be wise to consider the extent to which they pursue overcrowding going forward.
Anyone know about Swiss now they are flying 777s from ZRH to HKG etc 9 or 10 in economy ?
Check out John Nguyen’s article about Swiss Air’s 777 flights between ZRH & LAX. Swiss is putting 10 abreast in economy on their new 777 aircraft.
https://www.airlinereporter.com/2016/06/tour-swiss-new-flagship-777-300er/
4 flights on 777-300 in the last 6 months (on to India from DXB/HKG):
Feb 2016 – EK – ORD-DXB – 3-4-3
Jun 2016 – CY – ORD-HKG – 3-3-3
What a HUGE difference. With 3-4-3 and seats next to your occupied, you WILL have to tuck your arms in while eating or you will be elbowing the person sitting next to you. VERY uncomfortable situation during ~ 15 hour flights.
I sure hope that CY does not change from 3-3-3. I will happily pay an extra $100 to fly on a 3-3-3 aircraft.
People who rate Emirates as #1 in long-haul economy don’t know what they are talking about. Agreed that Emirates has better food, hot towel, small amenities kit… but that extra 1+ inch of width and probably 1+ inch extra leg room MORE than makes up for the extra stuff on Emirates.
The thing I care most about in Eco is the hard product, and of course I prefer 9 across to 10 across, but airlines need to make money. Most travellers don’t want luxury and unparallelled comfort in economy; they just want a low fare and to get to the destination. It is nice to have more space on a longhaul flight, but airlines need to ensure that people are willing to pay for more space by making economy less brilliant. Premium cabins are normally the real money spiller, especially for rich countries. SIA has been losing money on almost all of their longhaul routes, and thats because of 777 9 abreast economy.
MANY travelers don’t REQUIRE luxury and unparalleled comfort in economy and they ALSO want fairly low fares. However, a great many passengers are not able to physically cope with HD 10 across seats. Too many airlines are going with Super Luxury “apartments” up front and Super High Density in the rest of the plane, with very little in between. We need closer to a 50-50 split between 18″ humane seating and 17″ seats for the young and slim who can physically handle being cramped for hours on end.
I have flown both in the 777.
Nine across with Thai and ten across with Austrian and Air NZ. – Im a NZer working international flying many many times to Europe – business and economy – up to 5 times a year.. After 36 years of long haul I can say that the ten across 777 is the most disgusting seat available in international long haul. My advice is to avoid it like the plague. It is a shocker for anyone over 40 kg and 12 years of age!!! I’m ashamed to admit Air NZ use it in their aircraft and havn’t flown them long haul for years as a result. In either business or economy. If they cannot offer a civilized seat in economy I’m certainly not giving them my money in business class!
Oh and I agree with a earlier post.
Any airline should not keep 5 star status with a 10 across 777 seating configuration.
This is not to the standard of 5 star.
The fact Emirates operates this stupid configuration has been the sole reason I’ve stopped flying them between Europe and asia for the last half a decade. As long as there is choice in the marketplace I will choose airlines which use a sane seating config.
This now applies to KLM too. I’m a formerly loyal customer who has flown them many times from the far east to Europe. No longer, they just lost my custom, as all the KLM options for my upcoming flight would have meant taking the 777 10 abreast sardine can. I booked on another carrier.
Aside from flights one-off flights with a maintenance or personal issue, my recent 777-300er Air Canada flight from HKG to YVR was the worst ever. It was full, 10-abreast seating is terrible and as mentioned by others, less overhead space, longer lines at the lavatories and tight aisles for passengers and crew alike made for a “slave-ship” type journey.
Most definitely will vote with my feet and choice another airline and/or aircraft (in fact I already have). Avoid the “high density” nightmare at all costs.
It’s amazing too see that airlines are competing to offer the best First and Business Class seats but are racing to provide the worst in economy. Someone should strap those airline executives in those cramped economy seats they make other people sit in and make them fly around the world non-stop for like a month. See how that feels!!
The drive to “offer the best First and Business Class seats [while] racing to provide the worst in economy” hits passengers with disabilities the hardest! People who need various kinds of assistance are not served well when hidden away in a luxury cocoon. Plus, disabled persons often travel with an attendant and often cannot afford to buy two or three First Class seats in order to travel. On the other hand, the ultra-cramped so-called economy (steerage) seats don’t provide adequate space and comfort for people who have physical difficulties and/or need maneuvering space for their attendant.
The vast majority of people do not realise that 777’s come in these different configurations. I was one of those until I recently flew in an Air France 777, 10 seater, closely followed by a British Airways 777, 9 seater. It took me a while to realise why the Air France flight was such an appalling experience. Now I know and will avoid the 10 seater like the plague. However as more airlines move to the 10 seat arrangement will we passangers have a genuine choice for much longer?
I believe choices will be out there for some time to come. There is also more information at your fingertips these days to help you avoid such nightmares in the future. United is going / will be going 10 abreast… but the majority of 777 will be 9 abreast for several more years. Many airlines going to 10 “seaters” will keep a premium cabin at 9 abreast. Some, granted a few, will not make the move from 9-abreast. Of course there is always another aircraft type to look at as well. Most of all, watch for seat width and pitch and you’ll discover your better choices. I am now voting with my feet… also I’m answering every survey the airlines send me; with super-negative comments regarding 10-abreast seating on 777s.
Pretty much concur with all you say about voting with feet and being super negative in any feedback. Have just flown with TAAG (Angolan Airlines) on a 777 in a 9 seat configuration and a BA 9 seater. TAAG may not have had all the thrills of, say Air France but the extra space more than made up for it. Would travel with them again and reckon BA will loose my custom once they go to 10 seat across. Biggest problem is that most people complain about the cramped cabins on the 10 seaters but have no idea why they are so awfull and that there are alternatives out there. They blindly fly with whoever they find themselves booked with and the airlines will be doing their best to keep them blind.
ANA flies a 2-4-3 variant on its NRT-IAD route, and presumably others too.
Good news! It’s certainly not the end of the 777 3-4-3 10 abreast human rights abuse madness. Nor is it even the beginning of the end. But perhaps we can dare hope it is the end of the beginning?
Delta announced in May they would NOT go 3-4-3 for their new 777 economy layout. Industry analystz point out this may have something to do with the disastrously and overwhelmingly negative reviews of 3-4-3 on other airlines. Keep complaining and keep reviewing, however arrogant they’ve become, airlines do ultimately have to pay *some* attention to customer feedback.
See
https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2017/05/11/mulling-the-impact-of-new-delta-777-layout-on-passenger-loyalty-comfort/
Not a big fan of US airlines in general but Delta certainly gets my vote for this decision. It is the sort of thing that will affect my choice of airline.
This is a wonderful example that it really pays to speak up and fight for better things.
Totally agree. Another suggestion for somewhere to lobby: why aren’t airline aggregator sites such as Google Flights and skyscanner.net showing seat width?
Google Flights shows seat pitch in its search results but not seat width, which surely is equally important. If enough people suggest this idea to google and similar services, perhaps they could be persuaded to show this info. And if *that* happens, the 777 3-4-3 airlines will definitely sit up and pay attention! 😉
Google Flights feedback:
https://www.google.com/flights/ and click Feedback in the left sidebar menu
skyscanner:
https://forum.skyscanner.net/t/suggestions-to-improve-skyscanner/1339
Great idea. People should badger airline aggregator sites to show seat width! Once folks get used to comparing 17.0″ to 17.3″ (for example), their purchasing preferences just might change.
I’m an advocate for enabling disabled travelers to have an easier time flying. It would also be great if aggregators (and airline websites themselves) would show the location of the accessible lavatory on seating charts. That would be a BIG help for passengers who have ambulation difficulties, allowing them to choose seats close to the best lavatory that meets their needs. Right now, it’s really hard to determine where to sit if you have walking problems. Wide-body seating configurations vary so much, without a seating chart with good information, it’s worse than a roll of the dice.
I agree. I’ve always wondered why seat width is never mentioned and always seat pitch, as if it was some kind of conspiracy to hide the truth. Pitch nowadays has become somewhat misleading as airlines begin to instal slim-line seats where less pitch with these seats may actually mean more legroom than more pitch but with conventional seats.
It’s good to hear we still have choices as some airlines have rejected to “race to the bottom” such as Singapore Airlines, Garuda Indonesia, Asiana, Korean Air, and even Delta and China Southern, to stick to 9 abreast, and hope they continue to do so. I’ve flown Qatar 9 abreast and it was wonderful, but they are now switching to 10. Even Emirates award winning entertainment couldn’t even make up for the 17″ torture. Yes, 1 inch makes a whole lot of difference. I like JAL’s new 777 with 2-4-3 layout. They say it’s to accommodate different size groups. While ANA switches to 10. ANA should lose their 5 stars and give it to JAL.
Always do your research and shop around. You don’t always have to pay more to get 9 abreast. My wife got a good deal and paid much less to Dubai on SQ than what we had to pay on EK.
Although Kuwait Airways has a 10-seat abreast on their 777-200, their new 777-300ER has a 9-seat abreast configuration. So, should Kuwait Airways be put on the 10-seat abreast list, or the 9-seat abreast list?
Finally, some good news …
Judges order FAA to review airplane seat sizes :
http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/29/news/companies/faa-airline-seat-sizes/index.html
More good news… Just discovered
https://www.routehappy.com ,
a flight search site which shows the seating configuration for all flights directly in the search results! Eg. the old 777 economy configuration is described as “Standard 3-3-3 layout”, while the mad new one is somewhat euphemistically described as “Space saving 3-4-3 layout”.
Euphemisms or not, this is extremely useful. I don’t know of any other flight search website with this feature.
Alas, booked a flight on a QR A330 (paid more for a bigger seat) and they switched the equipment to a 77W. That’s what you get for paying more for a bigger seat.
Yes, I agree 100% – airlines that abuse their passengers by cramming 10 very narrow seats per row in the economy sections of their Boeing 777s, 9 very narrrow seats in their 787s or Airbus A330s/A340s should have one-star automatically deducted from their Skytrax rating so that passengers may be better, and more properly, informed about the quality of the airline they”re paying to fly.
As such, no airline that abuses their economy passengers with these widely loathed, hated and reviled too small for long haul flying seats, can achieve the coveted 5-star status, and those with lesser rankings, will also see their ranking commensurately diminished.
Of course, savvy flyers who are in the know already, or those who may be infrequent flyers but take the time out to research where they”re spending their hard earned money when they travel, can also simply take a ”DIY” approach to make up for SkyTrax”s failure to do its job by simply subtracting a star from whatever SkyTrax decides whenever they see that the airline only offers those despicable, and horrifically uncomfortable ”densified” beasts that nearly everyone HATES but the airlines, and Boeing, insists are ”no big deal” – or worse, claim are passenger preferred airplanes (when older ones with obsolete IFE [if any], worn down seats and faded interiors, etc., are also factors that may play a role in influencing the outcomes of survey results )
Hello, Kuwait airways B777-300ERs are 9 Abreast man, they are not 10 Abreast , I have flown them and it was 3-3-3 configuration, you can check in google images
I wish you would fix that
The consensus seems to be that Middle East airlines tend to fly more 9-abreast equipment than other airlines. In a seeming majority of cases, bottom-line profits are more important than passenger comfort & safety, so 10-abreast is the current trend on 777s. Overcrowding, with an extra seat beyond original design, is the norm for most double-aisle aircraft. And unfortunately, the flying public has, for the most part, come to accept the ridiculous cramped seating aboard 1-aisle aircraft.
flew the high density cabin for the first time from Singapore to Hong Kong last month – I have to say it is one of the the most dehumanising ways to travel.
Have been a loyal cathay Pacific Marco polo club member for 18 years – time to abdabdon Cathay for Singapore, since Cathay has abandoned their customers.
Hopefully one day, we can turn away from complaining about airlines that add one more economy seat in each row beyond what the plane was designed for, and focus on an interior architecture that accomodates the many different needs of disabled travelers. The United States decided long ago that we think it’s good policy to accomodate persons with disabilities (e.g. the ADA), however, after 32 years, the Air Carrier Access Act (ACAA) has failed miserably to provide accessible aircraft to our country’s public air transportation system.
Why are you not happiness most of your time in your? There is a procedure of everything, we need to do detail by
detail and stick to the process. The universe never ceases visiting your product. http://pivokom.ru/bitrix/rk.php?goto=http://win88.today/download-lpe88-android-windows/
Wow! After all I got a blog from where I be able to actually take useful facts concerning my study and
knowledge.
I actively avoid 777 10 abreast airlines whenever possible. I suspect I am not the only one, as I have started to notice a fare differential on the europe to BKK route..Thai (9 abreast or a380) are able to charge a 50% premium over people like AF/KLM in economy class.